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Post by Watchman on Nov 9, 2005 21:48:45 GMT -5
The King James version of the Bible is an excellent translation. It is based on thousands of manuscripts that agree with each other, rather that on the corrupt manuscripts, which are the basis of most modern versions of the Bible.
In my opinion, it is the best, widely available, English version of the scriptures. It is the English translation that I use and that I recommend to others.
However, IT IS NOT PERFECT.
Few people know that the translators of the King James version of the Bible were working under constraints.
The translators had to agree to certain rules. One of which was that the names used in earlier English versions of the Bible were not to be changed. The translation, or transliteration of many proper names used in the King James version are easily proven to be far from the actual names of Biblical Characters.
In addition, King James translators were required not to change many disputed words. One example is the fact that the word "church," based on the Old English word "cirice" (the house of a god) could not be changed to the word "congregation" (an assembly of believers). Because of that, many people today, when the scriptures are speaking of "the body of Christ" think that it is referring to a place that one goes.
There are many well meaning people, knowing of the corruptions in the modern versions of the Bible, who insist that the King James version of the Bible is perfect.
Not having had the opportunity to examine all of the details regarding the translation, they add fuel to the fire of those attempting to discredit the King James version of the Bible. Through the selection of isolated instances, easily proven to have minor imperfections, those who would like to set aside the King James attempt to make King James only advocates, who say that it is perfect, look foolish. In many instances they have successfully done so; persuading many that adherence to the time tested King version is totally unfounded. THIS IS TRAGIC !
The King James version must be defended only to the extent that it can be defended; not allowing others to make it's advocates look foolish, for it is the best widely available English version of the scriptures that we have.
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
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Post by brotherjerm on Nov 10, 2005 23:44:30 GMT -5
Hello Brother! You do raise some good points. I have made comments many times that the KJV is Gods Word in English perfected. I may be wrong. I believe that the KJV is a totaly accurate translation of original texts in our language. I don't doubt its content, I'm sure your not saying that. After all if we can't trust the KJV accuracy, or its content can we trust our own Salvation? Well of course we can. We are saved by Grace through the blood of Christ Jesus. Our KJV is Gods word to us gentiles, and englishmen. Yes we can trust it! But Brother Sean does bring up some very interesting points well worthy of a longer study of. I for one would like to be shown more on this topic. I am aware that the KJV of 1611 is different than ours today. BUT that is only punctuation and mispelling errors corrected from the primitive printing presses of that day. There is no doctrinal changes made in the 4 total recorrected KJV versions. Many KJV sceptics use this to disprove our KJV solid doctrine. Its a weak case if one justs looks beyond the smoke screen the scoffers create. Its easy to see they are not the same changes done to these new age perversions! I'm also aware of the lie spread that catholics helped translate our KJV. Satan is using christians to discredit the King James Version of the Holy Bible. So please brother Sean, post some more info. He who hath eyes let him see, he who hath ears let him hear!! Stand strong in our Lord, Followers of Yeshua; Brother Jeremy
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Post by Watchman on Nov 11, 2005 13:09:40 GMT -5
My post was not to suggest that the KJV is not the written word of God or that it does not contain all of the necessary and information for understanding of the character and the plan of our God, YHWH. It is clearly the most accurate representation of the original writings of God's people written over the course of history. We also can plainly see that 'modern' transliterations are an abominable attempt to 'water down' the importance of our Lords's sacrafice, as well as create division and unbelief. We must consider that the simplicity is in Christ! ALL we need is to TRUST and BELIEVE in the One True God- by this His Spirit will guide us to the truth in all things. It is not for me to question the will of the Father. I will remain steadfast in the belief that the 1611 KJV is the most reliable translation of the Holy Scriptures written in english. Remember- Satan is a COUNTERFEIT. He will go to any means to create division and strife. The Bible is our guide and comfort- our instructor and our companion, IT IS THE WORD OF THE MOST HIGH GOD BUT IT IS NOT THE SOURCE OF OUR SALVATION! The Bible leads us to Christ! Do not fail to perceive this stumblingstone!
The most obvious 'error' in the KJV is found in Acts 12:4.
SHOULD THE USE OF THE WORD EASTER AS WRITTEN IN ACTS 12: 4 BE DEFENDED?
In the year 325 A.D. the Council of Nicaea attempted to change the date for the observance of PASSOVER! Although the Biblically prescribed times for Passover can never be changed, a festival observed on the date set by the council of Nicaea is now observed under the name of a pagan fertility goddess, EASTER.
The word Easter, nor any other pagan title, was used by the council of Nicaea. The Hebrew word for passover, as written in the transcripts of the Nicaean council, was not translated. The word for passover was transliterated: The Hebrew letters were written using the corresponding Latin or Greek alphabet characters, so the the word would be pronounced in a similar way. This is an blatant deception.
It is extremely important to consider the fact that Constantine the Great and the Council of Nicaea intentionally changed the Biblically prescribed time for the observance of Passover. There is no doubt that the date they chose was influenced by the Roman celebrations in honor of the sun gods and goddesses near the time of the vernal equinox.
PAGANIZED PASSOVER
Many modern day "Christians" suppose that Easter as observed on the dates set you the council of Nicaea was a "Christain" feast, separate from the "Jewish" feast of Passover. Many think that the Jews observed Passover and that the Christians observed Easter.
That is not true. In 325 A.D. the Council of Nicaea invented their own "Paganized Passover" which is now known as Easter.
The inclusion of the name of the pagan sun goddess Easter in the King James Version of the Bible has caused millions of unsuspecting believers to disregard the Biblical feast of Passover, and, instead follow the inventions of men.
CAN THERE BE ANY JUSTIFICATION FOR THE USE OF THE WORD "EASTER" IN THE BIBLE?
"Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certainof the church. And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people."
It has been said by some, attempting to defend the King James translators, that the day of passover was over and that the 7 day feast of unleavened bread, which was being celebrated at that time, was not actually passover. They say that Herod was waiting until after a Roman festival day in honor of a pagan goddess before bringing Peter forth to the people. Some say that the King James translators were justified to use the name of a pagan goddess from their own time period (EASTER).
WHAT DOES HISTORY PROVE? WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
Luke 22:1 ...the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
THERE IS NO BIBLICAL AUTHORITY TO SEPARATE THE DAY OF PASSOVER FROM THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD IN REGARDS TO THE USE OF THE WORD PASSOVER.
WORDS IN ITALICS
Anyone who studys the KJV will notice that many words are italicized. Italicized words were first used in 1560 when an edition of the Bible, known as the Geneva Bible, appeared. This Bible had been prepared by the Protestant reformers in Geneva and was translated directly from the original Hebrew and Greek. In it, there were words that had to be added in English to make the meaning plain, although they were not necessary in the original idioms. No language can be translated word for word. The translators, then, distinguished such necessarily added words by italicizing them. The Geneva Bible became the most popular Bible of its time.
By the beginning of the seventeenth century, there were three versions of the Bible in England, but these translations were by no means correct, and as time went on, the meaning of some of the English words changed. The need for a better translation became apparent, and from this need came the most used version even today, the King James or Authorized Version. King James gave the task of translation to a group of 54 translators, and in their translation, they followed the lead of the Geneva Bible translators and made use of italics for added words.
In most cases, italicized words clarify the meaning of certain phrases. However, because these translators were not necessarily inspired by God in their work (though some would claim so), they made mistakes.
For instance, the LORD tells Moses at the burning bush that His name is I AM (Exodus 3:13-14). About 1,500 years later, when Jesus is about to be arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane, He tells them—in the King James and many other versions—"I am He" (John 18:3-8). The "he," however, is in italics; that means Jesus did not say it! He really said them, "I AM," identifying Himself as the LORD who spoke to Moses, the very God of Israel! No wonder the multitude fell back!
Another mistaken use of added (italicized) words occurs in Revelation 20:10. We can save this discussion for another time.
The lesson, then, is that, since these words are not original to the Bible, they should be regarded with caution. Most of the time, the translators supply the proper words for the original sense to be understandable in our modern English. Yet, as with all human endeavor, there are times when errors occur, so no italicized words should be the basis for determining doctrine.
Believe it or not, not all translators of the Bible consider it authoritative, inspired or inerrant! Besides, it is difficult to know whether God inspired their work. The only safe determining factor to assess a translation's accuracy is to research its source text(s).
The New Testament has been transmitted to us in three major text types: the Byzantine, the Alexandrian and the Western texts. The Byzantine or Eastern type represents 85% of known Greek manuscripts, and among these an incredible unanimity exists. This text type was preserved in the Byzantine Empire, roughly corresponding to the area covered by the apostle Paul. Though these texts are not the oldest (the earliest dating from the fifth century), the huge number of Byzantine manuscripts, as well as their inclusion of familiar passages not included in other types (Mark 16:9-19; Luke 22:19-20; 24:12; John 7:53-8:11; Acts 18:21; 24:6-8; etc.), argues for their authenticity.
A growing number of scholars recognize that the Byzantine type is much older than the existing manuscripts suggest. Readings regarded as uniquely Byzantine have been found in far older (second- and third-century) papyrus fragments, as well as in quotations from early church writers. In addition, the Byzantine text has for centuries been the standard New Testament of the Greek-speaking churches of Greece and Asia Minor.
The Alexandrian type represents the oldest manuscripts yet found, and its chief texts are Codex Vaticanus, residing in Vatican City, and Codex Sinaiticus, residing in the British Museum. Today, because of the age of the manuscripts, it is the primary text of modern scholarship. Scholars assume that since these texts date before the Byzantine texts, they are closer to the originals and thus more accurate. However, though written as early as the fourth century, Alexandrian texts often disagree with each other and show signs of poor copying and preservation.
The Western type was developed in the western Mediterranean under the Roman church. Some authorities describe it as a "wild" or "undisciplined" text that shows little editorial control. So little similarity exists among these texts that scholars wonder if there really is a Western type! No major translations rely solely on the Western text, but some occasionally use its variant readings.
Because of the Jews careful treatment of the Old Testament, the Hebrew text has far fewer variants among the handful of texts used for translation purposes. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has verified their accuracy to a remarkable degree. Two manuscripts are most commonly used, the Bomberg (ben Chayyim) and Leningrad (ben Asher) texts, and they are quite similar, though the latter is about 500 years older.
The English-speaking world's most popular translation continues to be the Authorized or King James Version (KJV). It is the only major version that represent the Byzantine tradition. Even in its 1611 English, the KJV is remarkably accurate and understandable, and it is still the most reliable translation on the market.
The New International Version (NIV) is an ecumenical, evangelical Protestant translation. Although it reads well, it shows frequent bias toward Protestant doctrine in its choice of various renderings (compare Mark 1:1 in the NKJV and the NIV). It, along with most modern translations, omits or places in footnotes "disputed" sections not supported by the Alexandrian text.
The Revised Standard and the New Revised Standard Versions are distinctly American translations. They are also Protestant in bias but slightly more conservative than the NIV. The New American Standard Version also falls into this class. It also had some Catholic priests as translators.
The Living Bible, Paraphrased is a free paraphrase, not a translation, and is thus not accurate. Its writers include many details found not in the ancient texts and take literary license to an extreme. Today's English Version ("The Good News Bible") falls in the same category. Other translations and paraphrases good for comparison purposes include the Moffatt translation, the Phillip's translation, The Amplified Bible, The New (or Revised) English Bible and the Jerusalem Bible (Catholic).
Among Old Testament specialty Bibles, the most accurate is The Holy Scriptures published by the Jewish Publication Society in 1917. Their latest version, Tanakh, a looser and less accurate translation, shows influence from modern critical scholarship in its idiomatic rendering.
If you have the KJV you can feel confident that the words are as close to the original sense and meaning as we can get today. Trust in God!
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Post by eyesopen on Nov 28, 2005 18:53:27 GMT -5
I love the KJV! I replace LORD with 'Yahweh' when I read and it seems to make it much more power! I also often pass over the words in italics (in my mind) and often find a 'truer' meaning. When I read I also (im my mind) change the 'thee's and thou's'. I studied a RSV and a NKJV for a while, but when i was shown how these were made i sold them on ebay! I always seemed like the 'notes' in these were written by men who do not believe.
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eichmann
Contributing Member
10%
Posts: 4
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Post by eichmann on Jun 12, 2006 12:34:45 GMT -5
Good thread. I agree 100%. Most people that are KJV only and claim it is perfect do not know they are using the 1769 ( Baskerville Birmingham)revision, those who do know say MOST of changes were phonic. They discredit the Holy Spirit.
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Post by adonijah on Jun 12, 2006 23:01:46 GMT -5
For the most part I use KJV or NKJV, it just works better for me.
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Post by Enow on Mar 26, 2009 22:15:34 GMT -5
I rely on the King James Bible because the meaning of the scriptures are not changed as the other Bible versions has it. By His grace, I can defend the faith by the King James Bible in this present day apostasy, but I cannot by the other versions. Indeed, because of the other versions, no one is able to see the correction even when using the King James Version.
This is result of creeds done in ecumenical format and unscriptural hymnals that has broaden the Way given in approaching God the Father in worship by climbing up another way other than through the Son and that is through the Holy Spirit in which scriptures do not say to be used as a stepping stone to God the Father or even to come to Jesus for scriptures declare the thief as being placed inbetween us and the Good Shepherd.
Jesus is the Only Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus as 1 Timothy 2:5 says. Jesus is the only way to God the Father as the commandment in His invitation is given in John 14:6,15-17 which brings the promise of the Comforter for all those that have come to Jesus for the Holy Spirit shall dwell in us and never leave us for we are sealed as His, therefore all believers that seek after the Holy Spirit after they have received Him are climbing up another way and becoming workers of iniquity. The call against false prophets in Matthew 7:13-27 and Luke 13:24-30 is the same... narrow the way back to the straight gate because that is Whom the indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing us to (John 16:13-15 & John 15:26), the scriptures are pointing us to (John 5:39-40), and as faithful witness being led by the Spirit, so should we also by His grace (John 15:27 & 1 Corinthians 2:2 & 2 Corinthians 4:5-7) There is no more continually filling of the Spirit to be sought after for we are complete in Christ Jesus: ( Colossians 2:5-10 & Matthew 9:17)
Matthew 9: 17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
This is what it means to be saved so we can rest in Jesus when we came to Him. That is why there is no more hungering nor thirsting after coming to and believing in Jesus, but there is when in apostasy as they seek after another "spirit" to receive, believing it to be the Holy Spirit. Did God the Father give a stone, a serpent, or a scorpion at salvation? Then once received, you have the seal of adoption, otherwise, how can any believer call God Father after being bought with a price through the Blood of His Son? How can all the promises of God be yes in Christ Jesus if another inviation had to be given by going after the Holy Spirit?
John 6:35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
The NIV of Romans 8:26-27 is to blame for misleading many into believing that the Holy Spirit serves as a Mediator. Read below and look for the bad grammar in this translation.
NIV Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
How can the "he" that searches our hearts AND knows the mind of the Spirit be "the Spirit"? The "he" is a third person seperate from searching our hearts and knowing the mind of the Spirit so "he" cannot be "the Spirit" in verse 27. Also, in misleading in verse 26 is the fact that it implies that the Holy Spirit makes some sounds in order for this intercession to take place. That is not so in the King James Bible.
KJB Romans 8:26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
"...woth groanings which cannot be uttered" means no sound at all.
Now note the pronoun "itself" as opposed to "himself" used in the NIV. Itself as applied is referring to the Holy Spirit being the means by which this intercession is being taken place.. it.. as the means and ..self... referring to the Person of the Trinity. When reading the KJB of Romans 8:26, it would leave the reader asking the question then as to how can the Holy spirit intercedes if He makes no sound? Onward, we read the answer.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
This he Whom is the third person that searcheth the hearts and knoweth the mind of the Spirit is the same he that maketh intercession for the saints acording to the will of God thus answering the question that by the Holy Spirit being in us, this "other "Person" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit, and thus the Spirit is the means by which this oother "Person" makes intrecessions for us in according to what will of God? That Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between god and man. Both verse 34 in NIV and KJB confirms this but because of the bad grammer in the NIV of Romans 8:26-27, readers overlook verse 34 as well as 1 Timothy 2:5.
KJB Romans 8: 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
NIV Romans 8:34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
Also, because of creeds done in ecumenical format along with unscriptural hymnals, no one sees how the way has been broadened to include the Holy Spirit in the spotlight as one to be worshipped seperately. It starts by the fact that the Holy Spirit is God, but scriptures specifically stated that the only way to approach god the Father in worship is through the Son (John 14:6) and the only way to honour the Father is through the Son for that is how we shall be judged:
John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. KJB
The only way to glorify God the Father is through the Son:
John 13:31Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.
John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Many will protest this as ignoring the Holy Spirit as God, but this is not so if one acknowledges that the Holy Spirit is indeed God but is sent to do what?
John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The Holy Spirit seeks to glorify Jesus Christ as well and most importantly... not speak of Himself so if we are led by the Spirit within us, we shall be doing what the Holy Spirit in us is being sent to do.. glorify Jesus and thereby the Father in Heaven.. so that is why the way has to be narrowed back to the straight gate to avoid false prophets and false spirits as Jesus is the ONLY Way to the Father in worship... otherwise, wayward believers are suffering their houses to be broken through as many "fall" for this other spirit when it comes thus believing a lie for being an adulterous generation that seeketh after a sign and not after Christ by Whom we have received the sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.
2 Timothy 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
In any event, as only God can cause the increase even if I use the King James Bible for I am not anything as God creates the hearing ear and the seeing eye, by His grace, I can only hope as to anyone reading this can see why I rely on the King James bible.
There has been so many religious guantlets thrown out there... even the commitment to follow Christ as if we can live the christian life by the flesh by keeping it. Truly a vanity & not of faith.
John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Lord has set me free from my commitment to follow Him which no one can keep. He has restored me to the path of righteousness for His name's sake by living by faith in the Son of God to help me live as His.
Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
My confidence is in the Lord.
Philippians 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...... 9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
I had to decrease so that He may increase. I had to deny myself as being able to keep my commitment to follow Him so that sinners may see the hope in Christ Jesus in God's Covenant to us. He is the One that saves us from our sins so that we shall no longer live in them nor will sin having dominion over us.
Many mighty men and nobles are called after this religious guantlet of making a commitment to follow Christ as the one that offers it is accreditted to all those people coming to Christ, but Satan's ploy is to get the world "for Jesus" and not God's plan of Christ for the world. How subtle is that slight of hand to look towards the believer to see how serious he or she is to christ, but the Good News is about knowing how serious Gos is to us through Christ Jesus in that even little children can come to Him and indeed, unless we become as a child, we shall in no wise enter therein.. and what can a child do but trust the Lord? So let no men glory in men for when we all stand by His grace in the House of the Lord, it is by His righteousness and His faithfulness by Whom we shall give thanksgiving to .. to the glory of God the Father.. so let they that glory.. glory in the Lord for no flesh shall glory in His Presence.
1 Peter 4:17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
That is what the rapture is for as those not ready, shall be left behind, but Jesus shall even finish His work even in them for as the prodigal son is still son and the foolish virgins finally got oil for their lamps, they still miss out on the inheritance and like Esau, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth but 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 and Hebrews 12th chapter all points to the Father scourging every child He receives so..
Let us all labour into the rest which has been provided in Jesus Christ and let nothing lead you away from the hope in Him as by His grace, we trust Him to be Our Good Shepherd and not just as Our Saviour so that we may get to know Him and the power of His resurrection as we see ourselves living the christian life by the faith in the Son of God.
May all those that have gone astray, remember their first love before that door is shut of the first fruit of the resurrection at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.. the Bridegroom and the Bride.
Is all your hope on Jesus.. or not?
Do you serve the Lord Jesus Christ and nothing else in His name or not?
Even I need the Lord's help to do even that. No one that places their trust in the Lord shall be put to shame. Amen.
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